Stoltenberg bows out graciously

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Just two years ago, Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg was being widely praised both in and out of Norway for his strong and compassionate leadership following the terrorist attacks of July 22, 2011. On Monday, the government coalition he’s led for the past eight years lost the parliamentary election, but he kept smiling, declaring that “we are not in any way beaten.”

He seemed invincible just two years ago when he led the country out of crisis, but Jens Stoltenberg's Labour Party couldn't hang on to government power despite Stoltenberg's personal popularity and even though it emerged as the largest party in the land. Most, including Labour Party secretary Raymond Johansen (left), attributed the loss simply to voter fatigue. At right, deputy party leader Helga Pedersen. PHOTO: Arbeiderpartiet

He seemed invincible just two years ago when he led the country out of crisis, but Jens Stoltenberg’s Labour Party couldn’t hang on to government power despite Stoltenberg’s personal popularity and even though it emerged as the largest party in the land. Most, including Labour Party secretary Raymond Johansen (left), attributed the loss simply to voter fatigue. At right, deputy party leader Helga Pedersen. PHOTO: Arbeiderpartiet

That brought his cheering Labour Party faithful to their feet once again as they tried to come to grips with election defeat. The Labour-led government successfully guided Norway through the finance crisis, has kept unemployment at the lowest level in all of Europe and has, among other things, led the country while it’s repeatedly been branded as the best country on the planet in which to live. Party members and officials may be justified in feeling some bitterness that voters didn’t repay them with another term in office. Stoltenberg seemed to take it in stride, not least since his party wound up once again as the largest single party in Norway, just without power.

“We have an election result we can be proud of,” he said from the podium at Folketshus in Oslo, where Labour traditionally gathers. “We are the largest party by a good margin. We mobilized voters very well. And after eight years in office, our election result was only two percentage points under that in 2005.”

Final election results aren't yet available, but the Conservative bloc seemed set to claim 96 seats in Parliament compared to the Labour-led coalition's 72. GRAPHIC: newsinenglish.no

Final election results aren’t yet available, but the Conservative bloc seemed set to claim 96 seats in Parliament compared to the Labour-led coalition’s 72. GRAPHIC: newsinenglish.no

It’s the eight years in office that most members of Labour and its coalition partners blame for the voter let-down. “After eight years in office, many want a change just for the sake of change,” Espen Barth Eide, who’s been serving as foreign minister in Stoltenberg’s government, told Norwegian Broadcasting (NRK). “That’s usual in Europe.”

Sigbjorn Johnsen, Labour’s finance minister, said much the same as did party secretary Raymond Johansen. “We have sat the longest in recent memory and hardly anyone ever wins three terms,” Johansen told NRK, adding that “many wanted new faces.”

It was the weakness of Labour’s partner SV (the Socialist Left party), which was barely maintaining representation in Parliament as election returns continued to click in during the night, that contributed to Labour’s downfall. SV seemed to be holding on to 4 percent of the vote while Labour’s other coalition partner Sp (the Center Party) was holding 5.5 percent. Together that left the three parties with far fewer voters than the Conservatives and Progress Party alone, and even less if all four non-socialist parties form a government.

Stoltenberg, in typical endearing style, allowed that “it is okay to be a bit disappointed tonight.” He congratulated Erna Solberg for her Conservative Party’s good showing and wished her luck in forming a new non-socialist government coalition. If she fails, there’s always a chance Stoltenberg can step forward again and offer to reinstate the current coalition.

“But I can promise that we will be a constructive and responsible party in opposition,” Stoltenberg said with a smile. “And we have shown that we can make a turnaround. So welcome to hard work before the next election in 2017.”

newsinenglish.no/Nina Berglund

  • Bananjan

    We will not get private health care in Norway because of the new government. Some changes will occur, but our welfare state will continue to exist. One of the main reasons for this change of government is immigration, as many Norwegians want a more strict immigration policy.

    • Comment_approved

      I agree – I think most people are quite content with things as they are, except immigration. It’s not Norway’s duty to take the world’s refugees. It’s a small country, and to be honest can’t sustain the levels of immigration there has been.

      It’s quite interesting – if you look at the breakdown of votes in Grorud in Oslo for example, the second highest party (behind AP) is FRP – to me, that’s the ethic white Norwegians that still live there, saying that they have had enough!!

  • frenk

    I once had the ‘privilege’ of using a private hospital in Galsgow for an operation. Excellent, excellent, excellent…is how I would rate the experience! Even the food was good!

    • Robert Neve

      Of course because you were paying. If it was bad you’d go nhs. However if a private hospital knows it’s getting your custom whatever it does because the government is paying for you to go there do you think it will still care about you or will it make it as cheap as possible to improve their profits?

      • Kanon25

        Well that’s the dirty little secret of this incoming government and its empty promises about healthcare. The truth is that the norwegian private sector is cynical and poor on customer service. You start feeding them guaranteed govt money and good luck. Then these ideologues will turn around and tell you it is your problem because you have “choice”.

    • Tom Just Olsen

      That a hospital is ‘private’ is no garantee for high quality. It’s far better to have the doctor consentrate on the illness than on profit. But there is a huge health care industry in the making with powerful owners, like Goldman Sachs, that will tell us all these lies to get to the lucrative health care ‘market’.

      • crazyassmofo

        Or how about a private hospital that a health insurance company owns and those with private insurance go to that hospital only to be “negotiated” down on the medical services they “need”?

        • Tom Just Olsen

          What you are describing is the American health care system – that they all (except for the HC industry) want out of. In USA health care cost is 19% of GDP and covers only 2/3 of the population. Here in Norway the cost of our public HC system is 9% of GDP and covers everybody. – Even more since the number of patients seeking help without having right to it increases.
          Further, we want to participate in forming and managing our public healthcare system ourselves. Not leave it to a multi national company and only be ‘consumers’.

          • crazyassmofo

            There is a hospital in Norway that is exactly what I just described.

  • Isaack Kibet Kwambai

    From Australia to Norway, the CONSERVATIVES are making statements through their wins in concluded elections, one of their common ground,Anti Immigrant Sentiment & Rejection of Multiculturalism on The High….eiish…its getting darker at the end of the tunnel…

    • Robert Neve

      Learn about the politics before spouting. AP was the most popular party in Norway and Australia only changed to conservative because the labour party is split and in tatters after a leadership fight. Few people in Australia like the conservative guy, he is just less worse than the labour one.

    • Robert Cumming

      Conservative in Norway is centre left in most countries, left in Norway is very left everywhere else. Norway is not a right leaning kinda place, but IMO multiculturalism doesn’t work, it hasn’t worked elsewhere in the world, I can’t think of a country which has fully embraced multiculturalism and not had major issues with it. It’s completer PC bs IMO.

      • dragonlife

        Hi Robert,
        I think as soon as we learn how to respect and tolerate the other different multiculturalism is actually something which gives us the unique chance to learn. We are not obliged to be a friend to that different, we only need to accept his existence…

        • Robert Cumming

          Fair enough, I just rather accept his difference whilst he was back where he belongs. Multiculturalism creates far more problems than it will ever solve, so why try to solve an unsolvable problem?

          • dragonlife

            I do think that not multiculturalism which have created the problem, is simply the human “natural” rejecting and exclusive attitude. Both faces of the coin are mistaken and no one wanted to make a step ahead…

            • Robert Cumming

              why is there any need to take the step ahead?

      • Kanon25

        Yes, the native Americans should have kicked out the European immigrants. And the samis should have done the same to the african emigres the met (read “norwegians”).

        Just point out how vapid this “multiculturalism doesnt work” excuse. I can believe the nationalists across Europe are still peddling it, without asking themseves when they will go back to Africa, because that is where they came from actually.

    • Tom Just Olsen

      The conservative party (Høyre) encourages immigration – to keep salaries down. But our little (16%) semi-fascist party Frp are the vocal anti immigration people. Vocal, because they have voted ‘for’ just about every law that could have stemmed the tide of immigrants (EEA, Schengen etc.)
      The political struggle in Australia and Norway are still very similar. Both countries have huge natural resources that mighty economical powers fight to get control of.

  • Observer2796

    Amazing huh? Baggers are everywhere. Surprising the idiot didn’t mention Obama.

  • Robert Cumming

    There is a better way, at least better than what is offered in the US and Norway, a lot of countries like NZ have both, public and private hospitals, those who have medical insurance use the private system those that don’t use the public system. Both are efficient and work better than what is on offer here and in the US. It’s give people choice, same deal for education, let people have a choice of public or private.

    • Tom Just Olsen

      That is a two tier system. It’s bad, but the giant multinationals in health care are persistantly pushing to get in. It’s the best we can hope for.

  • Robert Cumming

    I don’t think it’s just Asia’s, North African and Middle Easterners, I also think people are fed up with Eastern Europeans as well. Norway doesn’t need the immigrants they need to get all those hundreds of thousands of lazy SOB’s back to work who would rather sit on welfare and sickness benefits than do a good days work.

    • Robert Neve

      To some extent sure and that is the best way of dealing with it. When Eastern Europeans can’t get jobs here they won’t come here.

      But there is a major skills gap in Norway that is only getting worse as more and more students take soft subjects of science and engineering. That will ensure Asia’s, Egyptians, middle east etc will come here.

    • dbreed

      I’m an immigrant from America, do you think it’s okay with FrP if I stay in Norway? I even have the right skin color and everything!

    • Ade Larsen

      Currently, welfare is a reward and entitlement.
      It needs to go back to being for the needy and those less fortunate.

      • Tom Just Olsen

        Welfare is an entitlement for the ‘needy and less fortunate’. Sooner or later all people will be in need. Most commonly for healthcare services. People in Norway shall not be dependent on charity.

        • Ade Larsen

          I’m sorry. I didn’t make myself clear, to wit,
          Welfare should always be available for those who need it. ok ?
          However, welfare is being abused by people who don’t need it and they are given it as an automatic indulgence and reward instead of getting a job and contributing.

          Is that clearer ?

          • Tom Just Olsen

            Sure, but the conservative press, Frp etc. claim that welfare fraud is a huge problem. By this, making life more of a missery for those in need. Relatively speaking welfare fraud isn’t all that bad here in Norway. It’s being exagerated. Tax evation (OECD: Norway have a black economy of 20% of GDP) is ten fold. Something the conservative press/Frp try to avoid attention to.

  • Tom Just Olsen

    A private hospital will be more expensive profits included. Even the majority of Høyre voters know that. So, there is a limit to how far Høyre can ‘sell out’ our health care system.

  • Tom Just Olsen

    In the end you will have no choice, because you can’t afford it. Norway’s health care public health care system is very good and costs us 9% of GDP – half of the Amerian health care system. All services are practically free. But private actors are pushing to get a piece of the cake. That will only make it more expensive and less transparent.

  • Bananjan

    That’s not correct. Asylum seekers increase the population in Norway by a middle sized Norwegian town every year. That’s a lot in such a small country. Almost all the population growth comes from immigration. The majority of Norwegians oppose the immigration policy of the former Socialist-Centre coalition.

    • Robert Neve

      According to SSB 9,785 asylum seekers came in the whole of 2012. In the same year it had a population of 5,051,275. Meaning the asylum seekers equal 0.19% of the population. Sounds extremely high to me. And not even close to the 78,570 immigrants that came to the country. But sure, focus on these people and continue their persecution. It’s not like Norway is suppose to be a nice or compassionate country.

  • Fisher

    Reply to:Robert Neve:
    “Funny how whenever the word immigrate is used what they actually mean is Asian who is clearly here without a job. Norway wouldn’t be functioning without immigrates and the tiny amount of asylum seekers they have are neither here nore there. Norway isn’t accepting the majority of immigrates because it has to but because it needs to.”

    —What? I am from China and I am working here as a doctor, Have you any ideas how many people I have helped with my hard working and patient even when my Norwegian colleague sometime get tired to treat the patients? Have you any ideas how many people are waiting in the line for operation? I pay the tax, I contribute my knowledge and of course I get the paid and am respected. Most of my Chinese friends and me would rather choose to go back home definitely without any hesitations if someday losing job than stay here for relieve suffering despise. And as I know, Asian here around me are most educated and have a decent job, less crime, less drunk. Yes ,Funny: “how whenever the word immigrate is used what they actually mean is Asian who is clearly here without a job.”

    I can also tell you 1 years ago a hospital in Beijing has contacted me offering a professor position, I discussed with my Norwegian friend, he said “we need you and the Interns need you”, I love Norway for many reasons and I choose to stay but it doesn’t mean I would like to consume this country, and any other country without contribution! This is what is “clearly”.

  • Robert Neve

    You won’t find many friends here. Not met a person yet who believes in any of your party’s populist policies. And it’s funny how that exact stuff lifts almost perfectly off the UKIP/BNP phrase book. I’m sure they are not at all racist or anti immigrant just like your party is not. But at least that wonderfully “fair” child benefit policy of yours has been ruled to be as illegal as any half decent thinking person knew it to be. Hopefully such things will save us from returning to a pre-victorian frp approved Norway.

  • Robert Cumming

    Justice in Norway is far too lenient, that’s one area that needs to be fixed urgently.

  • Comment_approved

    It seemed that this comment sparked some debate. I was merely looking at the voting results and drawing my own conclusions – as I am entitled to do. I also didn’t just mean Asians – there is a large contingent of East Africans and Afghan/Iraqi’s.

    The problems come with assimilating them into Norwegian society and beliefs. The problems come when migrants are concentrated in one area – there becomes a ghettoisation. Local schools suffer, as the children speak Norwegian as a second language etc etc – then what happens is divisions in society forming which don’t help the situation.

    I think Norwegians are fed up with Eastern European immigrants. The problems come when people soon adjust and take advantage of the welfare system.

    • frenk

      ‘Assimilating them into Norwegian society and beliefs’…thats very ‘”Germanic 1930’s thinking” and thats not how immigration works. Yes, they will absorb some of your ideas…but on the most part they will continue to do as they wish. They are here for you welfare….
      Although….we must ask…where would Norway be without unskilled immigrants doing the wok you won’t do….and skilled immigrants doing the work you can’t do?

      • RichardEnnJohnson

        Don’t bother frenk, you cannot reason with a bigot.

        • Comment_approved

          And once again, one cannot have a reasonable debate about immigration without being cast as a bigot. I am an immigrant myself. I am just saying I can sympathise with Norwegians, that may think immigration has reached levels which are hard to sustain.

          • Robert Neve

            The problems are of their own making. You said an issue was ghettos. But why do they exist? White flight. Norwegians don’t want to be near them so they move out. That also makes the prices cheaper tempting foreigners who don’t have parents in Norway to help them buy a house.

            As for this myth that immigrants come here to leech on the benefit system, you should know that we are not allowed. Immigrants are not allowed access to the system until they have worked for over a year and even then it is wage related and lasts only a year.

            • Comment_approved

              Exactly – white flight. But some people (commenting here) and others like to believe that there aren’t any issues. You say Norwegians don’t want to be near them and they move out. But then we have plenty of people advocating the advantages of immigration – but they don’t have to live beside them. Sure, wasn’t there the case of the politician who sent his kids to school on the other side of town, because he didn’t want them to go to one with a heavy immigrant population of school kids.

              • Robert Neve

                But that’s just it. The problems are being caused by themselves. Norwegians decide they want to stick to their own so they move away. The more that do the more “ethnic” the neighbourhood. The more “ethnic” the more Norwegians will move until the entire area becomes a ghetto. You team that up with the racist attitudes of people hiring and then get surprised that the immigrants end up over here clumped up and having issues getting jobs or earning money. They are living the life the Norwegians gave them and being targeted for living that way.

                • dragonlife

                  Exactly Robert, that’s what the cause of Riot happened recently in Sweden and frequently in France…When you ask an average Norwegian he would say that the main cause of those problems is the immigrants (of course the non western) who didn’t like to integrate in the society. This is just a part of the truth, The main truth is that the Swedish society and now the Norwegian tend to be elusive, ghettos are slowly created here and there not just because immigrants like to live together, it’s just because Norwegians fear from the other different and look for an typical ethnic neighborhood, and then the prices in “immigrant areas” fall dramatically…

          • RichardEnnJohnson

            I agree with FrP’s very strict immigration policies, but the way you and others frame the issue, with sweeping generalizations about large groups of individuals based on their national origin, is racial discrimination by definition. Any attempts to show you the error in your unhelpful approach is met with accusations of ignorance, naivety, or . There are very legitimate concerns about the large numbers of unskilled immigrants, but the bigots cloud the issue, and they are the biggest hindrance to a reasonable debate, not the people who call them out on it.

      • Comment_approved

        I don’t understand that last paragraph of yours. You seem to be casting aspersions which are indeed incorrect.

        I have experienced both signs of the coin. I am university educated and now work in a skilled environment. However, it wasn’t all this way. When I moved to Norway, I hadn’t long graduated and didn’t have a raft of experience. I moved here with a woman. I did what I had to do to stay – and that was a low skilled job working long hours, shifts of hard labour.

        I don’t think it is very Germanic 1930’s thinking to ask for a greater awareness and appreciation shown to western values by those who find our cultural, views on women for example, greatly different to those non western civilisations. Your flirtation with which you are insinuating that my thinking is Germanic 1930’s – of the era of the rise of national socialism is ignorant, misplaced and lacks intelligence.

      • Comment_approved

        Anyway, the comment I had in here which went missing, was something along the lines of: that my point of assimilating immigrants into Norwegian society and beliefs is very far removed from your incorrect and unintelligent references to National Socialism at which you are hinting. I am university educated, and having moved here not long after graduation struggled to find a job to to lack of experience. But what I did do, was take the first job I could, which was an unskilled manual labour job, consisting of hard graft. And in this industry I did work with a lot of Polish et al. I feel I am therefore well placed to comment, based on my own experiences. I continued to work in a multicultural work environment with skilled engineers from all over the world.

    • Kanon25

      The “ghettoisation” claim is completely unfounded. America took tons of poor unskilled, people from places like Germany, Poland, Italy, Ireland and even Norway – they all lived exactly as you describe. Actually 750,000 Norwegians immigrated from Norway to USA. They lived in ghettos and married each other. Over time, it works out – if the society is inclusive enough,

      Even today, a poor person from Karachi or Delhi is more likely to assimilate in New York than in Oslo. That’s the fault of norwegians and their inability to define their culture in postive, open and inclusive terms.

      For all the whining in Norway about foreigners, every single one of the problems I see in daily life in Oslo (poor public transport, poorly designed and maintained roads, depressing mediocre groceries, thoroughly unambitious schools, lack of bike paths, incompetent public service adminstrators, incompetent health care administration) is down not to immigration but to the fact that Norway is very close minded to outside ideas and far too accepting of incompetence when the bearer carries a “norwegian” face.

      The few successes in modern Norway tend to come in sectors that embrace diversity and the outside world. This is the lesson unfortunately well beyond the grasp of most Norwegians. Most are brainwashed to think that only what is created inside these borders 100 years ago or more can be a good idea.

  • Abhi

    Over the last few years, I have lived across 4 continents for both studies and work. After a lot of discussions, debates and disagreements, chose Norway to settle down a couple of years back. This country is a model of healthy lifestyle – a disciplined hum-drum which often leads to monotony and boredom for people who have just been too busy dealing with a lot of stuff they did not need to deal with. I have been born and brought up in an extremely capitalistic society and have been conditioned to run the rat race – and its extremely boring to run alone. Thus, Norway never comforted me the way that the States did or London did. Of course, I was saving a hell lot more in those countries.
    Last month, before the elections, I talked to a lot of elder Norwegians about their political ideologies and discovered that a lot of elder Norwegians are quite well to do – because slowly and steadily they have built up wealth or inherited it. ‘Quite well to do’ in my opinion is owning a decent size home, 2 cars, may be a cabin, eating healthily, retirement planned for and can afford good holidays. Then it struck me, many Norwegians are not in the race because they don’t want to run focusing on the end and reach as soon as possible but enjoy the view and make the journey last for a longer time.
    Recently, I have witnessed that the political climate of Norway is getting changing – its getting more and more enamored with the adrenaline rush of the race. Proposals like breaking up the oil fund in to different competing funds, more privatization and other like them are recent examples.
    I just wish that when Norway starts running, someone’s there to once again pat it on its back and remind – “relax and enjoy the view, there are no winners in this race”

    • frenk

      You are correct. They do want to live in a little ‘Norwegian bubble’….hence the reluctance to open up their markets to foreign competition. I’m only really interested in good quality food at a reasonable price….but the creation and maintenance of this ‘bubble’ seems to make this ‘unachievable’! Don’t forget that Norwegians are spending 6% of their GDP in Sweden…and their health and education systems are both ranked in the bottom 4 in Europe. I’ve said it before on here….foreign competitors are ‘ruthless’ and Norwegians don’t have any real knowledge or experience with market competition/forces….it could be a ‘very painfull’…..

  • dragonlife

    Bananjan,
    I totally respect your point of view, but this is not just a question of hard work, since MOST of the so called “non-western immigrant” in Norway are hard worker (both low and high educated) and i can confirm that even more hard worker than an average Norwegian, but it’s about rejection a different culture, religion and behavior.

  • Tom Just Olsen

    You reveal your close ties to the old National Socialism when claiming that the pre war labour government ‘had neglected our defence’. This was an exuse used by many prominant Norwegian nazis to ‘justify’ their own treason, in their pre war trial. They forgot that nazi elements within the Norwegian Army complicated things in the fights in April and May 1940. They forget that the previous Høyre Mowinkel government had done nothing to prepare Norway for the German war mongering. While the Labour/Nygårdsvold government placed orders, as soon s they were in office, for both planes (Northrop – used at Iceland, Curtis fighters – confiscated by the Germans and given to Finland and Curtis bombers – an order taken over by the British) and naval vessels. So, you are the one misinforming here. Troll, yes.

    • Brian Desmond

      Are you calling me a Nazi Tom Just Olsen?

      • Tom Just Olsen

        No, but take my advice: Don’t repeat NS myths. Norway was attacked the 9th of April 1940 by the strongest military force in the world at the time: Took Poland in 48 hours and the Netherlands, Belgium and France within a few weeks. Norway fought, together with French and British forces, for two long months. The rather successful battles around Narvik had to be given up when the Germans attacked France. If you are interested in Norwegian WWII history stick to the real experts on the issue. Like the writings of , say, (now deceased) Magne Skodvin and Guri Hjeltnes.

        • Brian Desmond

          Tom Just Olsen; take your advice! do you read your own postings before sending them? If I am interested in war history you ask! It is my job if you did not read one of my previous posts. You have some knowledge of Norwegian war history that is fairly clear, but anyone can Google what you have written on here. As for your statement that I am repeating National Samling myths shows that your knowledge of Norwegian war history is limited and flawed; it also shows your total lack of integrity by connecting those who quote the truth about Norwegian prewar political history are liars and have close links to Nazi ideology. Your ability to insult and write libelous statements on here are incredible; asylum seekers FrP skin colour (FrP therefore is a racist party plus all its members and voters) and FrPU Neo Nazi! And you still havent answered my comment about 90 thousand jail sentences for FrP members after the war and Accusing me of having close ties with National Socialism. (Nazi ideolgy) But this does not surprise me following some of your postings on here; but what is disapointing is that the moderator on this website is not doing his or her job by checking your postings. Libel and Hatespeech is forbidden in this country and I have seen enough to not let your comments pass. As already mentioned previously every single comment you make on here will be monitored and passed on. I have also written to the head of this site about your activities. Freedom of expression and freespeech is important and necessary; but you obviously need to be protected from yourself. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

  • Hi Comment_approved,
    You currently have four comments in this thread. I’m sorry, but I can’t find any unpublished or deleted ones.

  • Kanon25

    “…If it is up to me, it depends on two things: If you can earn enough to go break even in our welfare system. That means paying some 200.000 – 250.000 in annual taxes per year….”

    Well then close every kindergarten in Norway – and stop educating kindergarten teachers..

    Shut down every grocery store and 7-11 while you are at it. Because those jobs dont pay the amount of salaries you are talking about.

  • Kanon25

    Sorry, that’s nonsense. It is factually incorrect. Norwegian schools are still not world leading even in locations where there are few immigrants.

    Besides, look at higher educatation and it is immigrants that actually attend university at higher rates than local norwegians.

    As for the healthcare system, you have absolutely incompetent hospital administration allied to a soviet-era work ethic among the staff. Mediocroty is all too easily accepted in the country. Aiming to be the best in the world, going the extra mile, is not a part of the culture here.

    If you cannot face up to this, you have a problem with reality. Blaming immigrants is a really lame copout.

    It was also quite low of you to insinuate that unemployment among immigrants is willfull when it is documented fact – go read the OECD reports for example or the many studies done locally in Norway – that Norway has massive problems with discriminating against immigrants in jobs that they are qualified for.

  • Kanon25

    How could anyone with a “decent grasp of economics” claim to be for free flow of capital and simultaneously against free flow of labour. Restrict one of these factors and you are wasting the other.. A first year economics student could tell you this – heck, probably even a decent upper secondary school student could too, if they had paid attention in class.

  • Kanon25

    No the UK never joined Schengen. So obviously its a paradise, isnt it? Oh, I guess not.

    Besides which it is laughable of the UK (read: center of the former “British Empire”) to suddenly be against immigration,after sending its people all over the world to suck the life blood out of North America, Africa and Asia. Even more hilarious that you want to promote them as a shining example of why immigration does work – had you never sat down and asked yourself if immigration was not the very reason why English is the language spoken in New York, Accra, Lagos, Hong Kong, Melbourne, Singapore, Kingston and all these other places. Utter joke how clueless some people are about history….

    Give us a call when Britain has handed back all the wealth it stole from the same people it is busy trying to keep out of its borders.

  • Kanon25

    Your comment offered no substance at all. You cannot selectively cut history to suit yourself.

    You dont like immigration, fine – go back to Africa and leave Norway to the Samis. And while you are at it, compensate America and Canada for the three quarters of a million poor farmers you sent over there, and take back all their tens of millions of descendants from there.

    And if you’re not happy with that, then wake up start understanding that immigration is part of human nature. No one has time for half backed argumentation that has no purpose other than to to hide basic racism.